> namespaces and separate build/install configs, On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 10:39 PM, William Woodall. Plus, since it is open source it can be improved. The System Modes package leverages the ROS 2 node lifecycle and parameters to allow specifying operational states and modes over multiple ROS nodes hierarchically. Ultimately, couldn't either one of the full stack build tools, or a federated setup (perhaps modifying existing tools when/if necessary) be sufficient compared to a ros specific toolset? Therefore it is very common for them to be reiterated in CMake. For source support, and unofficial variants, forks are already first-class on rosindex. Furthermore, these scripts are incredibly easy to understand, configure, and they run not only cmake but dozens of other build tools as well. Given that, we didn't feel that there was a good replacement that's come around since we developed rosbuild and catkin way back when. For my normal Python projects I use pyenv (for Python version management) and pipenv (for virtual environments and package management) and find this combination to work beautifully together. It would also support the current release cadence versioning, and long term support ROS desires extremely well. I love Homebrew, and I think it's a really nice tool, but I think they lean towards bleeding edge developers. Even so, I believe none of these shortcomings is insurmountable, some are trivial, and some look like they'll actively be addressed. This driver installs Intel Management Engine Interface, Serial Over LAN driver, Intel Management and Security Application Local Management Service, Intel Converged Security and Manageability Engine (CSME), Intel Management Engine Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI) provider, and Intel Capability . Again, ament is more about automating the builds of multiple packages. I'll be honest, I haven't used these myself I've only read about them. In order to be able to automate packaging as well as determine inter-package dependencies those need to be declared in a machine readable format. As a quick resume, in your ROS stack you'll have this package organization: my_robot. Any chance you might have a moment for my questions from April 17 below? How do you recover from errors? They tend to be designed to accommodate a centralized, large repository with modular internal structure, and require everything to be written in or wrapped up in bazel (or the tool of choice). (Qmake was a well-known and annoying example at the time.) The current build/package system that ROS uses provides: * Dependencies on system packages, automated installation of those packages, across different platforms (various flavors of linux, OSX, windows) * Dependency declaration and resolution between ROS packages * Generation of distro-specific binary packages (deb, rpm, arch) It was only after several months using ROS that I came to understand how much the build system enables our federated development goals. Soproblems of building aside, you'd also not want to do this too much as every 'updated' library you load with your snap will invariably be already loaded in duplicate by other nodes on your system. See http://www.ros.org/wiki/Packages for more details. Buck seems the closest but I can definitely see why they may not work as-is. rosdistro [1] doesn't have the model to capture forks, but if it did, it would probably take a day to write a script that uses something like vcstool to all of the appropriate dependencies into a source workspace. If nothing happens, download Xcode and try again. Nodes communicate with each other using messages passing via logical channels called topics. Following this tutorial, dependencies are added using
tags in package.xml. Yes, this sounds like exactly the right idea! Then you could just share a list of your variants, pipe it into a program, and get all of the code you need to run that variant. ROS packages are organized as follows: launch folder: Contains launch files src folder: Contains the source code (C++, Python) Does anyone here have experience with snap they'd like to share? My initial impression of ROS back in 2009 was colored by the natural skepticism of any experienced open-source programmer towards any project that creates its own build system. > There is no support to invoke Bazel from Xcode (for example to re-generate generated sources such as Objective-C files based on protos), nor to open Xcode from Bazel directly. But I'd argue that the transition from catkin to ament would be much easier than a transition to a completely new system like SCons or bazel. Please use the form below to find jobs currently listed: (Enter less keywords for more results. I also think some developers may see value in reducing the complexity of this process. For example, consider the known forks of `conman`: "Publishing" a fork to rosindex just requires a PR to the `rosforks` repo above, then on the next index generation, it will be included: This could be turned into a dynamic website instead of a static one, modulo the resources required to develop and maintain it. You have some good points there. 1. . Just pointing out that there are other tools out there isn't something I can weigh against what we're currently doing. They tend to be designed to accommodate a centralized, large repository with modular internal structure, and require everything to be written in or wrapped up in bazel (or the tool of choice). Listed on 2022-12-04. I asked in that thread about improving support for version-dependent dependencies, but they basically said it's up to the folks doing packaging to deal with that and they didn't want to add complexity to Homebrew to simplify this task. We will also go through the ROS concepts such as ROS master, nodes, parameter server, topic, message, service, and actionlib to refresh your memory of the . As for the ament_cmake stuff, it is really no different than any other CMake code that's embedded in pretty much every open source cmake project out there (have a look at opencv, pcl, gazebo, ogre, and similar projects). Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account. answered Feb 14 '11. However as a generic deployment mechanism when we start building up the community based stack I think we want to stick to the native packages managers on most platforms. - provides transparent download of binaries for specific operating systems when the default package works for you. We could support pretty much anything that provides an "install to FHS layout" target. I've had a little more time to mull this over, and I think I have a narrower but very common situation worth discussing and perhaps streamlining: Is this something any of you have encountered? I participated in that homebrew discussion, and my takeaway is that homebrew is probably closest to debian unstable since it is always providing the most recent versions of software. A package might contain ROS nodes, a ROS-independent library, a dataset, configuration files, a third-party piece of software, or anything else that logically constitutes a useful module. Are there any quality resources you can recommend? Ours just has a name, is modularized out of our other code so it's reusable, and could be used by others if they like it. This package also contains images of a turtle for display and files used to create the simulator. Packages are a very central concept to how files in ROS are organized, so there are quite a few tools in ROS that help you manage them. You may choose to opt-out of ad cookies, To be informed of or opt-out of these cookies, please see our. According to its package.xml file it requires - among others - the package camera_info_manager. If you can point to a part of the system and ask "why didn't you use X instead? +1 for Will's excellent summary of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system. For those using catkin, we hope to continue to support it so that they can transition to ament when/if they think it appropriate (Brian and Morgan have been working on this recently, hopefully they'll have something to share about it soon). The "problem" with this approach is scalability. For example, switching to your specific fully versioned clone is as easy as: Or, if you want to just install a single specific file without any other changes: Using this system, ROS could provide a full top to bottom package stack that is known to be stable and make it very consistent across many OSes! Now, let's say you aren't happy with the version provided there and you want to use your own. Specifically, Recipes (ruby install scripts) are pinned to exact tarball hashes, binaries, github tags or other files at the user's option all precisely defined in a git repository. We still have to build our software somehow and we've settled on this for various reasons. Additionally, how does the stability of debian versions help ROS releases on other platforms where ROS is used but debian is not? You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ROS SIG NG ROS" group. Each node can send or get data from the other node using the publish/subscribe model. There are a lot of package management tools out there and they have evolved and grown. I've started the ball rolling and the homebrew people are at least thinking about some of these issues, and they are planning to address at least some aspects. really all you need is an extension to rosindex which generates / update your vcstool YAML file, and a script to consume it and clone all the necessary repos. Related I believe (although for ROS 1, but the same/similar infrastructure is used): #q217475 and #q215059. Could ROS resolve this by cloning its own "LTS" branch of the necessary taps (or their own super tap) into a ROS managed repo for each release and freeze things that way? We didn't use it, but we spent a day reviewing it. ROS packages promote software reuse. Job specializations: Warehouse. So, a full rationale statement such as this remains quite important. If nothing happens, download GitHub Desktop and try again. This could give you a means of providing a snap for a particular package/node that uses an updated api and dependency chain, but you'd need to make sure it uses the same versions of messages to communicate with the rest of the system. Everything revolves around the git repo, taps and recipes, and it is super easy to create your own. - provides extremely easy to use configuration options if you need something other than the default. You can either fork the whole repository and modify one or two lines to change the version, or you can create your own ruby script that binds to a specific version. We use and support plain CMake and Python's setuptools without modification or even a package.xml file. my_robot_control (optional) and any other package that may be relevant to your robot and your robotics application. ROS is designed to be a loosely coupled system where a process is called a node and every node should be responsible for one task. Does ROS2 ship with a package manager that allows installation of packages from remote source (like npm install or vcpkg install)? So thanks for getting the ball rolling on that point. to use Codespaces. We shouldn't want to replicate all of that. But for building the code, cmake's find_package() is used? Much like the middleware, couldn't package management be handled by existing tools made elsewhere in the same manner as the choice of DDS? For pure binary installs and applications there is another system of "casks" as well, though I won't go into that quite as much, here is the link: That said, there are a few specific outstanding functional components that would need to be fixed so it would work for ROS. We regularly get reports of software previously tested as working is no longer working due to changed dependencies. Or, delete the package and install it again. It also would help that many of you are already familiar with homebrew when compared to any other pre-existing tool not currently used by ROS. There are many many corner cases in package managers. It's harder, though, to put version constraints on dependencies (for example requiring an older version of boost). Despite these experiences, it is great that ros2 isn't being started from scratch! A tag already exists with the provided branch name. The current state-of-the-art is to create a duplicate formula (such as boost155) typically hosted in homebrew/duplicates. It seems someone is trying to cross-compile ros2 which is another use case very relevant to this discussion: This seems to have died out while I've been traveling. Also we want people to be able to use our stuff within Visual Studio, which seems unlikely to be an option with bash on Windows. can be build using its native build tool. In fact our own Dirk Thomas and Jose Luis Rivero were some of the main actors involved in getting something better than cmake 3.2 into Xenial after the code freeze: It involved us spinning up builds of several hundred ubuntu packages on our. We are working hard to keep the dependency tree smaller for ROS2 as can be seen by our small mostly self contained binary installations for our Alphas. Even better it would be easy for users to modify when they need to patch due to bugs in the release software, which is something I encounter on a daily basis. Hopefully the following questions illustrate what I'm missing: Does Ubuntu currently manage all your debian packaging of ROS releases for you from top to bottom? Ubuntu) you can install those. At the end of the day, if the community cares about these features, the community needs to step up and support them. This will get pretty detailed because it is important to understand their model. In general, ROS packages follow a "Goldilocks" principle: enough functionality to be useful, but not too much that the package is heavyweight and difficult to use from other software. How do I install it? All the "ament cmake" packages can be built as a normal cmake package ("mkdir build; cd build; cmake ..; make"). Depending on rosdep to install dependencies is possible, but it's not sufficiently robust, as many pkgs don't state their dependencies properly. We have many pure Python packages in ROS 2, being built with ament, that only use setuptools. It would be very easy for ros to provide files like this in branches for long term support of specific versions in release distributions of ROS. I am not arguing that ROS' package manager supposed to replace the apt and similar but to complement them. It turns out there is a bug in said call, I submit a patch or bug report on github. repeat step (5) and (6) to go back to depending on upstream version, but things still need to be manually compiled until a new ROS release updates the dependency, which is often quite a while. Standalone CMake (which has improved a lot now around 3.5 with namespaces and separate build/install configs, cpack. On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Andrew Hundt. choosing an existing tool could substantially reduce the need for such work during ros2 development and into the future. We could fork the entire system however to do so would incur the cost of maintaining every dependency. I don't consider this a very elegant approach. As evidence, let's start with a "recipe" by taking a look at the start of the opencv install ruby script: - has a list of specific dependencies, hashed to an exact version, tarball, etc. Steven, thank you for your reply. We do this by having the low level meta information available and tools that can leverage that and build on each other. Just like with the on going work for ROS 1, we fully expect people to build software how ever they like and just use ROS 2 as a dependency. If not, why not? With rosinstall_generator, vcstool, colcon and rosdep one can build its own package manager for ROS2. Basically you have to run bazel, and then open xcode on the result. Their purpose is to reference one or more related packages, which are loosely grouped together. Andrew, the example you gave is definitely something that happens all the time, but it seems like this use case has more to do with the management of forks of repos than it does with the distribution of "official" releases. On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 4:38:58 AM UTC+2, Andrew Hundt wrote: Like Austin, i regard those as still too experimental for public use (all 3). rosinstall_generator generates .repo with the branch names, maybe one could specify hashes instead. I've been looking into ros2 a little bit, and I was curious about a couple of things regarding building and managing packages. Although ROS is not an operating system (OS) but a set of software frameworks for robot software development, it provides services designed for a heterogeneous computer cluster such as hardware abstraction, low-level device control, implementation of commonly used functionality, message-passing between processes, and package management. I'll explain below. I've also thought of another problem I've encountered. Many Git commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch may cause unexpected behavior. So I don't think it willussion, https://github.com/rosindex/rosforks/blob/de70fa1a9b138768c3dbfe3a6c43ac5ca5d74f35/repos/conman.yaml, tight focus on making it easy to create installers for your own package, possible to provide full top to bottom versioning of packages and dependencies (avoid cross-os differences! So diverting away from CMake has some significant cognitive cost for our community. You are right that Homebrew leans towards bleeding edge developers in the default packages they provide, however, their tool is specifically designed with the rigor you describe, they just happened to deliberately choose the bleeding edge rolling release model in their primary repository, but they make it trivial to set up a stable version locked repository. lukicdarkoo ( 2020-08-27 04:56:55 -0600) edit. And what benefit is colcon build adding here, can't I just build the package using make? Thanks, I'm just trying to understand the perspective from which your post was written! There are many packages that are not published to apt, or there is no specific package version available, or the package is available for a new ROS distro even though it is compatible. His message all by itself is a good step towards a solid Rationale section for the ament design document. I've found it makes fixes for users simpler because I can push a change to my forked formula + post a couple simple brew commands on the web and everyone is good to go. Here are some possible options for various languages: I add code that uses some functionality in a widely used ROS dependency like (pcl or OpenCV, for example) that I haven't used before. Suggestions may be selected), Use of Browser Cookies: Functions on this site such as Search, Login, Registration Forms depend on the use of "Necessary Cookies". When considering the above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process. However, it seems you have good reasons to stick to the native package manager on each platform. So yes, you can invoke just cmake && make && make install on a ROS package using CMake (even if it uses ament_cmake or in ROS 1 catkin). +1 for Will's excellent summary of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system. Of course these packages could be released into pip. Does ROS2 ship with a package manager that allows installation of package from remote source? Are you sure you want to create this branch? 26 Ros jobs available in Kennesaw, GA on Indeed.com. We intend to rely heavily on newer CMake features. I'd love to stop working on build tools and build systems and build conventions and just throw away our custom stuff and use something already out there. His message all by itself is a good step towards a solid Rationale section for the ament design document.. To start supporting what you're talking about. I'm running into some confusion between this reply and how things work with ROS. A primitive package manager for ROS2 could look something like this: https://gist.github.com/lukicdarkoo/d Is there is any specific reason it is not done already? Can Ament do anything to make life easier in this situation? I don't think that would be overly complex. For me, Homebrew + Linuxbrew doesn't cover enough platforms for us (notably lacking Windows support). . I can no longer use the packaged release included in ROS, so an arduous process of manually compiling/installing said patch and all dependencies begins on every platform (I at least try to support Ubuntu + OS X) and physically installed machine I have. I've tried to use Linuxbrew with limited success. Could you clarify? tldr: homebrew isn't made for stable software releases like LTS, so it's not a direct replacement for debian. Contribute to zma69650/ros_program development by creating an account on GitHub. Which is more or less what you're able to do with a cmake package, except cmake can be reinvoked from within Xcode (same applies for QtCreator and Visual Studio). A package manager is not something that's specific to robotics, and consequently we shouldn't reinvent the wheel, but learn from the many decades of (more). First a brief aside, I'm very pleased with the decision to use an existing middleware solution. It is true that they allow customizable builds (such as --double-precision for bullet), and you can declare these options in your dependencies (gazebo requests that double-precision option from bullet). ROSIndex [3] does model forks of repos, and again, it wouldn't be hard to add a script to that website which generates a YAML file that vcstool can use to clone a bunch of packages into a workspace. Dependency management in ROS2: CMakeLists.txt, package.xml, colcon build, make ? If there are binary packages for the platform you are interested in (e.g. ~/catkin_ws/devel/setup.bash package dependencies First-order dependencies When using catkin_create_pkg earlier, a few package dependencies were provided. And support building from source on almost any platform. Of course, there is apt, but with ROS' package manager, one could install packages on unsupported operating systems. In CMake you need to find other packages. This package contains the driver for the Intel Management Engine Components Installer. sorry, this was supposed to be repeat steps (4) and (5). You should be able to use pure Python setuptools or bazel or whatever you want so long as it meets a few small requirements like being able to install to FHS layout and possibly others (I can't enumerate them all off-hand). Installing pkgs using apt is much more of a hardened process. And how do you upgrade a specific package? That is why they are present in the manifest files package.xml. And as much as I hate Windows development sometimes (ok most of the time), it's something that has been requested of us again and again in ROS, and I think it's important that at least the core works and in order for that to be the case we need a build system that works on Windows too. So far their user-facing bits have not been optimized for the general public (steep learning curve, hard to debug, easy to shoot yourself in the foot). As @tfoote mentions, platform pkg managers have decades of development behind them, which especially covers all sorts of corner cases and tries to maintain transactional application of updates (at the package level, not across perhaps). my_robot_bringup. Also consider that many of our existing packages are written in CMake and many of our users are used to using it. Some users of my package aren't experienced enough to do this themselves, so they are simply stuck and out of luck unless I can give them step-by-step instructions. Second, what's the prefered way to install dependencies? DDS* (formerly Fast RTPS) is a C++ implementation of the DDS (Data Distribution Service) standard of the OMG (Object Management Group). eProsima Fast DDS implements . You mean in rosdistro? Listing for: FedEx Ground PH US. Use Git or checkout with SVN using the web URL. Again, I only really tried out bazel, but looking briefly are the others, they also don't seem to support Windows. I don't think that's the place for this, since it's meant specifically for distributions. I'm sure this isn't a complete enumeration but it hits some of the big points. We support plain cmake packages, for example we build FastRTPS and FastCDR without modifications in our build process. The goal of these packages it to provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner . Here is an example workflow how to create a workspace to test the availability: :: activate the ROS environment c:\opt\ros\melodic\x64\setup.bat :: create a empty workspace mkdir c:\catkin_ws\src cd c:\catkin_ws :: generate the released package sources list and its ROS dependencies :: you can customize the command line to checkout the sources . It provides services for monitoring and runtime management of the so modeled system hierarchy in a self-similar approach with the standard lifecycle services. In addition, too many users have development environments which are not clean or sane, leading to all sorts of problems. We take advantage of the great work of the maintainers in the Debian and Ubuntu communities and use their releases as stable bases upon which to build our ROS packages. By comparison we're moving towards a set of build, install, and test conventions in ament, such that you don't even need cmake specifically. I'm currently trying to understand the build system used by ROS2 and one thing I can't wrap my head around is the dependency management. Seems like they are taking the web idea of sandboxing served applications with their own esoteric dependencies (think virtual machine/virtualenv/bitnami/docker) and applying the same principle to regular operating system apps which traditionally share their resources with other applications. It lacks some of the rigor of other distribution systems like apt-get, especially in terms of controlling versions of packages you can install. Why do I need both? These things are doable, but the main thing is is that we don't want to be maintaining the core OS and all it's dependencies in addition to the ROS distribution. Packaging, General Labor, Warehouse Associate, Part Time Warehouse. Think of it as ros topics for packaging. Apply to Software Engineer, Solution Specialist, Research Scientist and more! All of them have non-trivial cmake code to accomplish some common tasks. The basic question is, what is the best way to deal with ROS and the underlying Python distribution and its package management. A package might contain ROS nodes, a ROS-independent library, a dataset, configuration files, a third-party piece of software, or anything else that logically constitutes a useful module. A package containing messages used by the RMF traffic management system. There is another class of packages in ROS called metapackages that are specialized packages that only contain a package.xml manifest. I think the people helped the most would be users who may simply lack the skills/experience to maintain their own versions of packages they depend on. Please allow me to elaborate and address a couple of the concerns. This gives you the same isolation benefits and the ability to concoct an app with esoteric dependencies. Of course, there is apt, but with ROS' package manager, one could install packages on unsupported operating systems. The current build/package system that ROS uses provides: > smaller user base. According to its package.xml file it requires - among others - the package camera_info_manager. On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Andrew Hundt. It is indeed very easy to set up your own homebrew tap to host your own custom packages. Structure ROS workspaces and packages with Git, Package running in 64 bit, not running in 32 bit, joystick ( joy ) package in ROS groovy [closed], Collvoid Package : ORCA algorithm not working, Catkin Workspace, exclude packages from building on specific platforms [closed], Problem in creating executable file for package [closed], Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. That job is no longer listed on this site. This includes: rospack: find and retrieve information about packages catkin_create_pkg: create a new package catkin_make: build a workspace of packages rosdep: install system dependencies of a package Any ROS package (which in ROS 2 could any build system like CMake, Python setuptools, etc.) We didn't spend as much time researching alternatives for build systems as we did for middlewares, but we've been working on them for quite a while and we try to keep up to date on the latest trends. I'll do my best to express why I think there's not a good existing solution for us to leverage in this part of the system (the build tools). Homebrew doesn't currently have an LTS, which requires freezing software versions for a long time and managing version-dependent dependencies. This discussion and the one above made some of the goals clearer to me and something specific really stood out in my mind. https://github.com/schuhschuh/cmake-basis, http://design.ros2.org/articles/ament.html, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ros-sig-ng-ros/package/ros-sig-ng-ros/suTQfcddeh8/p3d90Ew8-ZkJ, https://github.com/catkin/catkin_tools/issues/266, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cmake/+bug/1534263, https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v3.5/module/CMakePackageConfigHelpers.html, https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-science/blob/master/opencv.rb, https://github.com/Itseez/opencv/archive/2.4.12.tar.gz, https://github.com/ahundt/homebrew-science, https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-science, raw.githubusercontent.com/ahundt/homebrew-science/vtk6/pcl.rb, https://github.com/caskroom/homebrew-cask, https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/60, https://github.com/Linuxbrew/linuxbrew/issues/1075, https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/62, https://github.com/Homebrew/legacy-homebrew/pull/42053, https://github.com/Homebrew/legacy-homebrew/issues/44654, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ros-sig-buildsystem/xCYO2EOgd0M, http://wiki.ros.org/catkin/Reviews/2012-08-01_API_Review, https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ros-sig-ng-ros/CmsCHhqdXgM/Ji0FU763JAAJ, github.com/username/homebrew-tap/boost155.rb, github.com/username/homebrew-tap/boost.rb, Brew, upon disc. Warehouse Package Handler. my_robot_description. There are a lot of package management tools out there and they have evolved and grown. ", then I think we can have a more productive discussion. This is where "taps" come in. CMake + an existingconveniencetool such as: formula updates breaking their dependencies when bleeding edge changes are made, minor holes in assumptions when the available underlying OS/apt-get packages change, remapping of dependency paths without code modification is needed for ROS, support building/installing in a debug configuration. It provides the services you would expect from an operating system, including hardware abstraction, low-level device control, implementation of commonly-used functionality, message-passing between processes, and package management. Work fast with our official CLI. Comparatively OSX support based on homebrew is only known to work at a given point in time when tested. While my personal experience with OpenSplice has overall been negative due to the complexity of setup, bugs encountered, and lack of documentation, it may have improved since I was using itintimatelyin ~2011-2014. And what benefit is colcon build adding here, can't I just build the package using make? Job in Kennesaw - Cobb County - GA Georgia - USA , 30144. Eventually a patch to the dependency gets added upstream. Transportation. 7. repeat step (5) and (6) to go back to depending on upstream version, but things still need to be manually compiled until a new ROS release updates the dependency, which is often quite a while. Thanks again for taking my questions and ideas into consideration! I look forward to more nuanced discussions and proposals as we converge on a common understanding of the current state of things. I've experimented with bazel more than the others, but all of these, in my opinion, don't address the federated model we have in ROS completely. So ROS uses existing package managers rather than inviting its own. Robot Optimization, Scheduling, Task Execution and Routing (Ro.O.S.T.E.R.) my_robot_driver. To add the workspace to your ROS environment you need to source the generated setup file: $ . By comparison we're moving towards a set of build, install, and test conventions in ament, such that you don't even need cmake specifically. ros packages management. The build-pkgs-from-source helper is a nice idea @lukicdarkoo, but tbh, I'd rather we avoid having people build packages from source as much as possible. Plus, this space is much different today when. How do I install it? As you mention, in some future case we might be able to use these on Windows, but having tried out their bash for Windows demos, my opinion is that it will be years before that's something we can rely on and will most likely have some serious limitations. E.g. Particularly with the recent release of Ubuntu for Windows, *brew could be a powerful tool! for Ubuntu we create debs which you can install using apt. These essential cookies may also be used for improvements, site monitoring and security. When considering the above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process. Unlike web served applications, or desktop applications, our robots tend not to have this many resources lying around. is a ROS (Robot Operating System) based open source project to develop a heterogeneous fleet management solution with task allocation, scheduling and autonomous navigation capabilities.This software has been developed as part of the work at the 'Center of Design for Advanced Manufacturing' lab of TU Delft on the . And that requires you to build from source for every package on every deployment which can take a long time for a large installation. The wiimote package allows ROS nodes to communicate with a Nintendo Wiimote and its related peripherals, including the Nunchuk, Motion Plus, and (experimentally) the Classic. If the names of your build dependency names align perfectly with the names of the CMake config files you might be able to use convenience functions like ament_auto_find_build_dependencies. Why not adapt homebrew to work for ROS and take advantage of the dozen developers already working on homebrew and 5000+ contributors, incorporating the experiences of all the ros build systems plus the experience of thousands of other developers? I'd also argue that ament is basically "a federated setup (perhaps modifying existing tools when/if necessary)" as you put it. Second, if you want to build more than one package it will require a lot of manual labor. If you look at ament_cmake, it is basically just convenience macros, which you can choose to use or not, just like any other CMake "library". It does a nice job of keeping old versions installed side-by-side, but shy's away from complex versioned dependencies (which I think is understandable given their users and how the tool is used typically). You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message. It is true the homebrew guys won't manage a ROS release for you, but could you describe how that's different from what you do already? However, I neither see a system that already meets our goals nor a system that is willing to change their direction to meet our goals. I just haven't seen any concrete suggestions from our community on that point, but I'd be excited to get some suggestions. Please Beside that you can always build dependencies from source if either binary packages aren't available on your platform or you want a different version. dependencies are added using tags in package.xml. But for building the code, cmake's find_package() is used? ROS is actually a set of software libraries and tools made to ease the development of robotic applications. The goal of these packages it to provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner so that software can be easily reused. Specifically the following would need resolution: However, these are all issues which are all very practical to resolve with some development, although the windows issue probably outclasses the others in scale. These first-order dependencies can now be reviewed with the rospack tool. I notice that Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial supports it. Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account. (2) may or may not be added upstream right away so I create a temporary fork/branch with a fix. Using that example, if you install gazebo and bullet is not installed, it will install bullet with the requested options. I believe we've come to these decisions after well informed consideration, but that doesn't mean there aren't places we could throw away something custom and reuse an existing tool. For example, there are cross platform and language build tools already available that scale to massive size: Alternately, adopting an existing package manager such as. This commit does not belong to any branch on this repository, and may belong to a fork outside of the repository. Software in ROS is organized in packages. I just think it's not trying to do everything that debian does, so it's important to keep that in mind. For Windows Microsoft builds chocolatey packages which you can install with choco. I've experimented with bazel more than the others, but all of these, in my opinion, don't address the federated model we have in ROS completely. If bullet is already installed, however, it won't check whether it has the desired configuration, it will just use it. I suggest sending them feedback while the getting's hot! At ROSCon last October, Mark Shuttleworth proposed "snap" as a secure, cross-platform packaging designed for the Internet of Things. My conclusion is that none of them meet our goals (whether it be Windows support or allowing for integration with other build systems or supporting portable federated deployment). When adding one dependency to your workspace it might require additional recursive dependencies. How much would it take to add version parameters/constraints to homebrew? You signed in with another tab or window. Can rosdep do the job or do I have to run sudo apt-get install ros-eloquent-camera-info-manager and cross my fingers that all packages I need are in the dpkg source? Pretty much all colcon is doing for you is figuring out the dependency graph and invoke the necessary commands to build each package based on the build system it uses (while also leveraging parallelism where possible to speed up the process). Introduction to ROS and Its Package Management This is an introductory chapter that gives you an understanding of the core underlying concepts of ROS and how to work with ROS packages. Is there a streamlined way for federated binaries in what currently exists? It is very hard to guarantee the packages can be compiled smoothly on different operating systems. 1 2022-10-10: rmf_task_ros2: A package managing the dispatching of tasks in RMF system. sign in However, hearing how important the federated model is really made a light bulb go off and it isn't any of these options. my_robot_msgs. terminal outputs appear after KeyboardInterrupt, [ROS2] Start rosbag2 recording from launch file, Affix a joint when in contact with floor (humanoid feet in ROS2), Cannot build ROS2 humble (rclcpp) with Android NDK, ros2 transient_local durability (late joiners policy) does not work when using ros2 topic echo, [ROS2] CLI Parameter remapping for launch file, micro_ros_setup No definition of [python3-vcstool] for OS [osx]. That is the one crucial detail that is critical to ROS, it is trivial to change the packages you're building against and set up your own package set. Fortunately, most languages have good existing options ros2 could integrate with and provide corresponding examples of how to use it with ros2. Overall, I don't see how Homebrew or Linuxbrew could replace our build tools, since they don't really address the developer user who builds lots of packages at the same time. Of course this isn't the whole solution because the build tools matter. There was a problem preparing your codespace, please try again. As an LTS gets older some of the tools I use must be updated, which means compiling and patching from source, sometimes supplying later versions of items in /usr/lib in /usr/local/lib, sometimes for bugfixes there isn't another way to avoid. . Is it a potential packaging option for ROS 2? I know our justifications exist largely in our (the ROS 2 team's) heads, and that sucks, but thankfully discussions like this can force us to put them into words. Leveraging that, on any given day we always expect ROS to install on our supported platforms. Don't get me wrong, I love homebrew very much. And how do you upgrade a specific package? ), flags to customize the build configuration, integration with many manylanguages (i.e. Really there's nothing in ROS or ROS2 preventing this functionality other than a convenient place in the community for users to put forks. But I see your point. These could all be supported by ament I think. The goal of a ROS package is to be large enough to provide a specific useful functionality, but not so large and complicated that nobody wants to reuse it for their own project. However after that time when upstream moves a major dependency we don't know when or if it will break our software. We have support for apt, gentoo, openembedded, chocolaty, conda, snaps, docker images . > java, D, python, rust, lua (many more) > package managers that work well with their own language if. It would also prevent. Take for example this package. I usually end up compiling most things from source anyway due to bugs I need to fix that can't wait for a future release or functionality I'd rather not reimplement that is available beyond the release versions. installing and setting them up). But in reality there are often mismatches between rosdep key names (the ones in the package.xml file) and the CMake config name. Use vcstool to pull a new code and rebuild it with colcon (maybe also re-run rosinstall_generator and rosdep). The error recovery may be the hardest to implement. Learn more. Specifically, packaging! First, if you want to build multiple packages you need to manually determine in which order you need to build them. That's a fair question. I think it would be less convenient to use, for example, Homebew and plain CMake rather than our tools if you're hacking on more than one package at a time. Can forking ROS, modifying, then sharing be made a first class citizen by design and very easy for users to do? Software in ROS is organized in packages. The other thing that is a deal breaker for me is a lack of support for Windows. How do you check versions and make sure it's reproducible on two different machines? Additionally, deb files don't help me much on OS X. :-) It would be amazing to have one system that can work on all platforms. Thoughts? rosinstall_generator is a tool which helps you to get the source of all recursive dependencies so that you can build them from source. I'm not intimate with the capabilities of debian packaging. We have support for apt, gentoo, openembedded, chocolaty, conda, snaps, docker images, and soon rpms. To support the ongoing work of this site, we display non-personalized Google ads in EEA countries which are targeted using contextual information only on the page. Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. Full Time, Part Time position. We typically do not just use pip though since apt-get packages cannot depend on pip packages. It would be quite easy to set up a homebrew-ros with branches and exactly the versions of the exact software that is desired to get started! I'm not sure how, but is there any way .debs can even help with that? The class_loader package is a ROS-independent package for loading plugins during runtime and the foundation of the higher level ROS "pluginlib" library. Specifically: Why not go with something that matches one of your own best/proven models/designs in another area it can apply very well? 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